[10:00:58] Meeting time! [10:01:28] arschmitz, scott_gonzalez [10:01:46] Hi [10:02:14] kborchers: ianmaffett [10:02:31] uhhh, who else? [10:02:45] hello [10:03:16] isaacdurazo: rxaviers__: [10:03:24] DaveMethvin: markelog_: [10:03:35] hey-hey [10:03:48] here if you need me [10:05:26] Meeting notes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FUdRcAq2d8njs8KAcfQmEyoZL74SXLsLp1rtc7E9z_I/edit?usp=sharing [10:05:41] (sorry got pulled away to sign for UPS deliveries) [10:06:47] Okay so I guess I'll go with Performance Testing first, have we heard any news on this, or should we start coming up with a new solution? [10:07:58] I know there was talk of kristoferjoseph and brianleroux working on it, but I haven't heard anything for the past few weeks [10:08:24] yeah i think we are are a point where its hard to move forward with out tests to set a perf base line [10:09:00] Probably the best solution in this case, so we can move this project forward [10:10:31] we already have an open issue for this, so that issue should probably get some focus so we can get that out of the way [10:10:52] yeah there is lots out there about setting this up [10:11:02] we just need to get it working [10:11:17] topcoat and bootstrap both have it [10:11:30] do you want to take point on that arschmitz? or at least we could start posting resources in the issue to see if someone wants to take than on [10:11:32] http://topcoat.io/posts/benchmarks/ [10:11:40] Topcoat talks about how to setup the server [10:11:51] Awesome, thank you ianmaffett! [10:11:53] sfrisk: i have a collection of stuff already [10:11:58] from old css-framework issue [10:12:02] ill port it to the new issue [10:12:27] okay, sounds good [10:13:57] I posted the topcoat link in the issue too, and arschmitz can port in the stuff that was done in the old css framework days [10:14:28] Also, now that we have a name (huzzuh team Chassis!), we should probably get some domain names [10:14:53] scott_gonzalez: kborchers: can you help with this? [10:15:32] Yeah, we should be able to buy a domain. [10:15:50] Do you want to use jquery-wp-content or do your own thing? [10:16:15] scott_gonzalez: sfriskand i actually talked about this this morning [10:16:18] Doing your own thing will probably allow for saner implemention of using Chassis within the site. [10:16:38] Otherwise, you'll be burdened with updating all existing sites simultaneously. [10:16:48] and Jquery-wp-content seems like it would work well [10:16:56] but we may change our mind when we try it [10:16:59] :p [10:17:14] Actually, even using jquery-wp-content, you could just not inherit from the base theme. [10:17:23] true [10:17:33] and the api docs are allready well suited [10:17:48] Are they? [10:17:53] dont need to reinvent the wheel there [10:18:12] Documenting CSS is not like documenting JS. [10:18:18] yeah much of how the widgets are documented in ui is pretty good [10:18:43] yeah but how the structure of widgets is documented is similar and works well so far [10:19:15] sfrisk: whats your feelings? [10:19:45] You do realize that new structure means writing XSL, right? ;-) [10:19:46] *thinking* [10:20:13] yeah.... but its probably worth it in long run [10:20:46] I mean, it would encourage people to document things long term - because it's like the other sites, but you're right, documenting CSS is not like documenting JS [10:21:50] arschmitz and I had a discussion earlier today about how we would do it, and we were thinking about using aspects of what was already done in UI [10:22:44] Well, regarding the domain, feel free to file an issue and assign it to me. [10:22:56] okay shall do that now [10:23:39] I think this was the example arschmitz gave this morning: http://api.jqueryui.com/accordion/ [10:23:49] and we were coming up with ways we could adapt that for Chassis [10:24:30] yeah the themeing and markup sections there [10:24:38] also, for anyone who doesn't know, we do have a #css-chassis channel now [10:24:59] You realize that has nothing to do with the XML parsing and is just raw HTML, right? [10:25:08] That would be much better served via markdown. [10:25:28] oh sorry yeah this is my fault [10:25:38] https://github.com/jquery/api.jqueryui.com/blob/master/entries/accordion.xml#L38 [10:25:39] i didnt mean that as an example of xsl [10:25:48] just that it was something that looked good [10:25:56] I think he meant it as an example of how to lay out the documentation [10:26:17] im not sure how exactly we would use the xslt [10:26:28] I don't think you would want to use XSLT. [10:26:33] That was my point. [10:26:35] i was just saying before im not opposed to having to write it if there was a use case [10:26:47] im not sure there is but yeah [10:27:21] scott_gonzalez: sfrisk assign the domain issue to me and let me know what domain you want ... csschassis.com and .org are avail and i could grab those now if that's what you want [10:27:36] okay, I'll reassign the task to you [10:27:38] kborchers: +1 on those [10:27:53] +1 [10:27:55] Wouldn't you want that hyphenated? [10:28:07] hyphanated might be nice for readability [10:28:09] i never use hyphens in domains if possible [10:28:10] i hate hyphenated domains but what ever the project team wants [10:28:15] but im indifferent [10:28:39] kborchers: yeah pretty much but i dont care either way [10:29:14] sfrisk: just let me know what domains you want in the issue and once they are noted there i will get them [10:29:26] Okay [10:29:51] I mean, I'm fine with both csschassis.com and css-chassis.com [10:30:05] css-chassis is a little bit easier to read, but I can understand not liking hyphens [10:30:13] anyone else have an opinion [10:30:51] looking through how we do our other domain names [10:30:54] csschassis looks like CS Schassis, the hyphen avoids that [10:31:12] like "sizzlejs" and "qunitjs" [10:31:29] chassiscss isn't much of an improvement ;) [10:31:31] chassiscss.com? I [10:31:35] haha, yeah [10:31:41] I was just about to say that [10:31:51] I voted for "Draft" :-) [10:31:56] lol [10:31:59] lol [10:32:07] in this case i think the hyphen is necessary [10:32:14] too many c's and s's [10:32:18] lol [10:32:20] yeah, with that manys c's and s's [10:32:25] many* [10:33:27] so kborchers: I vote add a dash for readability [10:34:01] plus that way it also matches the repo https://github.com/jquery/css-chassis [10:34:13] ok, any objections to css-chassis.com? [10:34:22] none from me [10:34:28] looks good [10:35:10] and joebot0101 I think is voting for dashes [10:35:29] by proxy i assume :) [10:35:46] well considering what he just said up above [10:35:54] confirmed [10:35:58] oh ha missed that [10:36:02] sorry [10:36:28] okay, so the agreement seems to be css-chassis.com for readability [10:36:48] btw. joebot0101 since you're participating here, you should also join #css-chassis [10:37:10] done and thx [10:37:37] since jquery-wp-content has support for markdown and you don't need to inherit from the base theme, you could just start with that and markdown files [10:37:37] Okay, so if that is agreed on, next topic is naming convention [10:37:58] That could work [10:37:59] jzaefferer: yeah i think we want jquery-wp-content for sure [10:38:06] not sure on the actual api setup [10:38:15] To be clear, jquery-wp-content only supports HTML. grunt-jquery-content converts markdown to HTML. [10:38:36] oh, right [10:39:56] the jQuery Foundation now owns css-chassis.com and css-chassis.org and once a site is ready infrastructure can get everything wired up properly [10:40:02] thank you! [10:40:06] Awesome [10:41:16] so naming convention [10:41:16] okay, so that's handled, we'll definitely need to talk about/figure out documentation [10:41:29] but probably need code first, which leads into naming convention [10:42:19] so arschmitz and I woke up crazy early this morning and had a Skype call with the guys at Yandex who were behind BEM [10:42:31] I thought it was really productive [10:42:45] and they kinda changed my mind ( potentially ) [10:42:45] Do you have minutes from the meeting? [10:43:04] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dDtynv_VKHIQvkY9nisM20KWwWUUpI-K2RKjICGRDU4/edit?usp=sharing [10:43:40] That pretty much covers most of our discussion, and their responses to what questions/concerns we had [10:44:02] a lot of the ideas behind BEM, are actually already mostly being used in the UI projects [10:44:25] yeah the concept is very very similar to what we do in the ui theme already with naming [10:44:51] but they take the things in core.css and theme.css and make them mixins basically [10:46:03] which actually seems very sane to me its like the sass version of what we do already [10:46:13] what arschmitz said [10:46:36] and if you think about it that way the maintainability is actually easier [10:46:57] because you dont deel with issues of things being effected by specificity [10:47:08] because they avoid cascading [10:47:17] Overall I left the meeting with a positive view of BEM, and you're definitely not forced to have all those double dashes and whatnot - that was just their suggestion for separating elements and modifiers [10:48:02] yeah thats a good point they were clear about is the dashes underscores etc is totally up to you thats not really part of it thats just how they like to do it [10:48:06] definitely something that would cause a lot of repetition if we weren't using a preprocessor - but the preprocessor will make things very efficient [10:48:35] yeah i mean i dont think maintaing a mixin is any different then a class for the most part [10:49:31] they actually had very good answers for all our questions [10:50:01] not sure if mixin is the right word... probably want to use sass's @extend [10:50:09] yes sorry [10:50:13] thats what they called them [10:50:55] But yeah, overall quite impressed with what they had to say - not sure if anyone else had anything they were concerned about regarding BEM [10:52:51] and topcoat has shown you can get CRAZY SMALL filesizes using it [10:56:22] So, not sure if that changes/confirms anyone's opinions on using BEM with an OOCSS like design or something? [10:57:48] yes? no? maybe so? [10:58:27] it did me [10:58:34] i like it much more now [10:59:06] i came to some of the same conclusions in my reading [11:00:54] Okay, so I'll post that in the issue thread [11:01:24] move the discussion maybe to how we specifically want to implement BEM (double dashes or something else for example) [11:01:35] and that pretty much brings us to the end of the meeting [11:02:23] sounds good [11:03:16] okay, thanks for coming everyone, see you next week [11:03:43] Although someone else might need to run the meeting the week after (between Christmas and New Years), since I'll be traveling for the holidays with questionable internet access [11:04:56] or we could just agree to skip that tuesday [11:05:11] We can talk about that at next week's meeting though [11:05:28] talk to all of you later either in #jqueryui-dev or #css-chassis