[08:57:01] <DaveMethvin> .
[08:57:31] <mikesherov> .
[09:00:26] <timmywil> hi
[09:01:20] <gibson042> hello
[09:01:58] <DaveMethvin> heyo!
[09:02:19] <DaveMethvin> finished all my 1.8 work, started on 1.9 yesterday
[09:02:22] <DaveMethvin> APRIL FOOLS
[09:02:37] <timmywil> heh
[09:02:41] <timmywil> good one
[09:02:53] <DaveMethvin> that jaubourg guy is making us look bad, he got a lot done yesterday
[09:05:04] <DaveMethvin> hokay, might as well get started
[09:05:27] <DaveMethvin> so now that tinymce has fixed their bad patch, things seem pretty quiet on the 1.7.2 front
[09:05:51] <DaveMethvin> the new bugs seem to be the standard background radiation of "omg we need supportz for this obscure thang"
[09:06:34] <DaveMethvin> anything you guys have seen that looks urgent enough for a 1.7.3?
[09:07:06] <DaveMethvin> at this point I think I will close PR 720, tinymce has a beta that fixes it on their end
[09:07:32] <timmywil> I did a fix for newlines and getText, but that can wait I think
[09:07:44] <DaveMethvin> yeah, it's not critical
[09:08:27] <DaveMethvin> i did notice a few old-style stack trace crashes on trac last week, did we ever figure out the root cause?
[09:08:39] <DaveMethvin> mikesherov and gnarf had worked on it
[09:09:02] <gnarf> DaveMethvin: I just went and made sure that it was still running the tracd
[09:09:18] <gnarf> I'm not sure why "MySQL has left us" or whatever the error is
[09:09:22] <gnarf> kept coming up
[09:09:28] <DaveMethvin> it seems fine today, and i have been getting emails, so that part is good
[09:09:29] <gnarf> danheberden rebooted it and it seemed to clear up
[09:09:44] <DaveMethvin> can't beat a reboot
[09:10:26] <mikesherov> hi
[09:11:01] <DaveMethvin> on the style guide thing, is it ("hi") or ( "hi" ) with spaces? the style guide says quotes use the same rule as ({ }) and ([ ])
[09:11:12] <mikesherov> there are a few bad and slow queries on the trac server
[09:11:12] <DaveMethvin> but we're not very consistent in our code
[09:11:27] <mikesherov> I think our style guide is overly complicated
[09:11:36] <DaveMethvin> yeah
[09:11:53] <DaveMethvin> i'd like to have rwaldron in on this so how bout i create an email thread for it
[09:12:08] <mikesherov> sounds good
[09:12:33] <timmywil> it is ("hi")
[09:12:54] <DaveMethvin> yep, but if you look thru the code there is a lot of ( "hi" ) too
[09:13:01] <DaveMethvin> or maybe those are just my mistakes :P
[09:13:02] <mikesherov> because that is a recetn change
[09:13:06] <gnarf> $( "selector" )
[09:13:11] <mikesherov> rick changed it about 2 months or so
[09:13:11] <timmywil> then we should change that
[09:13:30] <mikesherov> deciding that double quotes provides enough white space to not have to put a space
[09:13:39] <DaveMethvin> the braces make sense to me but quotes don't look like braces
[09:13:40] <timmywil> it was actually ("hi") first
[09:13:45] <mikesherov> right
[09:13:56] <gnarf> i prefer the spaces around quoes
[09:14:10] <DaveMethvin> i prefer to not have so many conditional rules
[09:14:20] <gnarf> ({ }) and ([ ]) make more sense
[09:14:22] <mikesherov> I prefer whatever style allows me to click one button and format the whole file automatically so I never have to think about style again
[09:14:40] <DaveMethvin> oh look at mr fancy lazy man
[09:14:53] <mikesherov> my goal is to be the laziest programmer ever
[09:15:00] <gnarf> heh
[09:15:02] <DaveMethvin> the braces exception makes sense to me, the others not so much
[09:15:09] <gnarf> you'll be competing with me mikesherov ;)
[09:15:15] <DaveMethvin> but anyway we can paint this shed in email
[09:15:20] <mikesherov> YES
[09:15:32] <gnarf> agree
[09:15:53] <DaveMethvin> so we got a few tickets regarding our treatment of text nodes
[09:16:05] <DaveMethvin> generally we abuse them and try to eliminate them
[09:16:13] <DaveMethvin> which has worked for 5 years
[09:16:44] <DaveMethvin> i don't really want to expand the scope of our collections and apis to give them equal footing
[09:16:54] <DaveMethvin> we'd need test cases for everything, etc
[09:17:02] <DaveMethvin> and you can bet oldIE will fight us every step of the way
[09:17:11] <DaveMethvin> and it just makes no sense to do on some apis
[09:17:41] <DaveMethvin> and really, it hasn't been a big issue for most people
[09:17:46] <mikesherov> Sure, but what's the idea here? That our choices are to either support it everywhere or just the places it already works?
[09:18:01] <mikesherov> IS there a third option? Support it in a few new places where it might make sense
[09:18:04] <DaveMethvin> where it works it generally  just happens to work
[09:18:10] <mikesherov> and then document that we don't intend to support them everywhere?
[09:18:35] <DaveMethvin> we do allow them in collections created by $() and .contents()
[09:18:44] <DaveMethvin> or more accurately, they just kinda appear there
[09:18:57] <DaveMethvin> but filter with a selector always removes them for example
[09:19:05] <DaveMethvin> filter(fn) can preserve them
[09:19:40] <mikesherov> i see
[09:20:03] <DaveMethvin> but beyond that, remember that documenting where they happen to work today creates an obligation to always have it work
[09:20:05] <gibson042> but doesn't filter(selector) remove them only because text nodes can't match any selector?
[09:20:34] <DaveMethvin> gibson042: basically, although there are also some nodeType===1 tests in various apis as I recall
[09:20:35] <mikesherov> well, not "only because", but rather "necessarily because"
[09:20:58] <gibson042> yes, I think you're right
[09:21:54] <DaveMethvin> anyway i don't want people getting into a mode where they are constantly asking for "one more exception" for text nodes
[09:22:06] <DaveMethvin> again we haven't had a lot of asks for this
[09:22:22] <DaveMethvin> so it's not as if we're stopping the progress of web dev by not supporting text nodes consistently
[09:23:00] <mikesherov> I agree
[09:23:08] <DaveMethvin> as much as getting the code to work might be hard, there would also be quite a bit of work on unit tests
[09:23:23] <DaveMethvin> and our unit tests are already making IE6 nearly die
[09:23:52] <gibson042> is this the kind of thing that might come in with the dropping of oldIE support?
[09:24:01] <mikesherov> see you in 2015!
[09:24:05] <DaveMethvin> lol
[09:24:11] <DaveMethvin> maybe i am not sure
[09:24:14] <gibson042> hey, we know it'll happen *eventually*
[09:24:33] <DaveMethvin> like,   $(textnode).replaceWith("<div>haha</div>")
[09:24:36] <DaveMethvin> i have no idea if that works
[09:24:39] <DaveMethvin> in any browser
[09:25:14] <DaveMethvin> also there are issues with canonicalization of text nodes in some browsers
[09:25:26] <DaveMethvin> some coalesce adjacent text nodes, but i know ie does not
[09:25:42] <DaveMethvin> so the actual number of text nodes may not be what ppl expect
[09:25:46] <DaveMethvin> after manipulating stuff
[09:26:08] <gibson042> true
[09:26:11] <mikesherov> so, it seems like we've made up our mind then?
[09:26:21] <gibson042> I'd say traversing is safe but manipulation is not
[09:26:26] <DaveMethvin> well for now, there's always next monday
[09:26:48] <DaveMethvin> nothing is safe if we don't test it
[09:27:19] <gibson042> for a goal
[09:27:40] <DaveMethvin> that is probably a safe goal, dunno how easy it is to attain
[09:28:58] <DaveMethvin> i've marked that as a possibility, gibson042 would you like to look into it and see how bad it is? :P
[09:29:47] <gibson042> yeah, I think I would
[09:30:03] <DaveMethvin> great, thanks!
[09:30:57] <DaveMethvin> on the open ticket triage, would it  help if we did a meeting this week to knock out or assign the ones in this list? http://goo.gl/fbZD3
[09:31:21] <mikesherov> YES
[09:31:27] <DaveMethvin> some of them may just benefit from a quick concensus
[09:31:32] <mikesherov> Ok, unfortunately, I have to run
[09:31:38] <DaveMethvin> thanks mikesherov
[09:31:51] <DaveMethvin> what is a good time for a meeting?
[09:32:07] <DaveMethvin> Maybe friday morning?
[09:32:15] <mikesherov> I had two pieces of business: 1. I need to coord with danheberden trac stuff. 2. Need to know how to submit stuff for 1.8
[09:32:21] <mikesherov> I'll just check the meeting notes.
[09:32:24] <DaveMethvin> ok
[09:32:28] <mikesherov> But can it be discussed?
[09:32:31] <mikesherov> Thanks!
[09:32:33] <mikesherov> g2g
[09:32:34] <DaveMethvin> yep
[09:33:19] <DaveMethvin> i'll send around an email on getting us together for a meeting
[09:34:02] <DaveMethvin> So i'm good with using a branch for 1.8, and we already have a few things ready to land there
[09:34:32] <DaveMethvin> I'll create a 1.8 branch and land what we have so far, including the pull requests which should go in without a lot of conflicts i hope
[09:34:47] <gnarf> Yeah - I'm indifferent on 1.8 in master or 1.7 - whichever, lets do it
[09:34:56] <DaveMethvin> at that point ppl should branch against 1.8 instead of master
[09:35:36] <DaveMethvin> also i need to figure out why i can't attach tags to requests -- you can tag requests can't you?
[09:36:06] <DaveMethvin> or is that only for issues?
[09:36:19] <DaveMethvin> it would really come in handy
[09:36:42] <gnarf> labels?
[09:36:46] <DaveMethvin> yeah
[09:36:57] <DaveMethvin> sorry, labels
[09:37:18] <gnarf> it might be because we don't have issues enabled
[09:37:30] <DaveMethvin> oh, ok
[09:37:38] <DaveMethvin> well hecky darn
[09:37:41] <gnarf> i don't have push on jquery so i can't look
[09:37:50] <gnarf> but i think if we turned on issues, added some labels
[09:37:53] <gnarf> then turned it back off
[09:38:00] <gnarf> those labels might be available for issues?
[09:38:02] <gnarf> random thought
[09:38:04] <DaveMethvin> i can give that a try
[09:38:07] <DaveMethvin> thanks1
[09:38:14] <DaveMethvin> thanks!!!!11one
[09:39:06] <DaveMethvin> timmywil: did you see the sizzle pr from chad re the closure compiler?
[09:40:42] <DaveMethvin> still not sure how cc will fit in, but i was waiting for the grunt stuff to settle before looking at it
[09:41:49] <DaveMethvin> alright, that's it for me
[09:41:52] <DaveMethvin> anything else?
[09:42:36] <gnarf> apr 9?
[09:42:50] <DaveMethvin> next week
[09:43:00] <gnarf> thats the beta targ for 1.8?
[09:43:19] <DaveMethvin> well let's see if we can get a pretty solid 1.8 branch with everything landed by then
[09:43:27] <DaveMethvin> and evaluate where we are
[09:43:39] <gnarf> alright, i'll put some extra effort on my stuff this week then
[09:43:58] <gnarf> did you get my email response re: effects/transitions btw?
[09:44:02] <DaveMethvin> also I would kind of like an auto generated build for the 1.8 branch to make testing easier
[09:44:05] <DaveMethvin> sure did, thanks gnarf
[09:44:28] <gnarf> DaveMethvin: im sure we can update the cronjob that builds jquery-latest
[09:44:40] <gnarf> and make a jquery-1.8-git.js or something
[09:44:59] <DaveMethvin> yeah it would just be a new pull to a different dir, but also we will need to change it anyway b/c the build process will be different
[09:45:11] <DaveMethvin> right now i think it just runs `make`
[09:45:25] <gnarf> agree - when we have a branch to build, i (or a few others) can prolly handle that for ya
[09:45:49] <DaveMethvin> so it's prolly good we are doing a different branch since the build process will be radically diff
[09:46:05] <DaveMethvin> and prolly broken for a while until we work out the bugs :)
[09:46:29] <DaveMethvin> alright, thanks guys ... see you in -dev