[09:03:11] <scott_gonzalez> not sure where jzaefferer is
[09:03:35] <scott_gonzalez> rworth is out of town
[09:04:14] <scott_gonzalez> danheberden: any infrastructure news?
[09:04:24] <scott_gonzalez> haven't heard anything from clarkbox in weeks
[09:04:53] <danheberden> scott_gonzalez was looking at the .it stuff, but no - haven't heard from clarkbox either
[09:05:05] <danheberden> he's been offline too
[09:05:23] <danheberden> i'll be looking at the bugs server this afternoon
[09:05:37] <scott_gonzalez> ok
[09:06:41] <jzaefferer> hey guys
[09:06:53] <jzaefferer> daylight saving switch got me miss meetings, but I'm here now!
[09:07:48] <danheberden> Jörn can haz meetings now?
[09:08:01] <jzaefferer> yeah
[09:08:17] <scott_gonzalez> I'm going to assume there are no docs updates right now
[09:08:46] <danheberden> well we got somewhere with the learning site deployment stuff, so that might prove useful for docs later?
[09:09:00] <danheberden> so a baby update
[09:09:43] <scott_gonzalez> yay
[09:10:09] <scott_gonzalez> on to testing
[09:10:18] <scott_gonzalez> I implemented .simulate( "focus" ) and .simulate( "blur" )
[09:10:33] <scott_gonzalez> based on the discoveries gnarf and I made last week
[09:10:49] <scott_gonzalez> that fixed the autocomplete and tooltip tests
[09:11:23] <scott_gonzalez> I've also been working on getting TestSwarm to be completely green
[09:11:26] <scott_gonzalez> getting very close
[09:11:39] <scott_gonzalez> just some effects failures left in IE
[09:11:53] <jzaefferer> that's pretty cool stuff
[09:11:55] <scott_gonzalez> which seem to not have existed until I fixed every other failing test :-/
[09:12:04] <jzaefferer> except that one
[09:12:51] <gnarf> im here, runnin a lil late
[09:12:53] <scott_gonzalez> Dave is still working on draggable and droppable
[09:13:06] <gnarf> good work too it seems :)
[09:13:31] <scott_gonzalez> yeah, and I was even online at the same time as him last night
[09:14:37] <scott_gonzalez> if you haven't heard, Everett Zufelt will be doing an accessibility review next week
[09:14:37] <scott_gonzalez> zufelt.ca/blog/jquery-ui-accessibility-review
[09:15:38] <jzaefferer> hoping to takes Hans' work into account that we didn't land yet
[09:16:11] <scott_gonzalez> what's outstanding besides tabs?
[09:17:31] <jzaefferer> high contrast mode, which affects a lot of widgets
[09:17:37] <jzaefferer> slider maybe?
[09:18:16] <scott_gonzalez> well Everett is blind, so he won't notice that :-P
[09:20:15] <scott_gonzalez> BrowserStack is finalizing their API
[09:20:20] <scott_gonzalez> so we should have something soon
[09:20:35] <scott_gonzalez> any other updates?
[09:21:11] <jzaefferer> also autocomplete, Hans had built something that got screenreaders to announce the menu opening
[09:21:24] <jzaefferer> something like "x suggestions available"
[09:21:51] <jzaefferer> by adding a (hidden) element with that text and aria live region attributes
[09:22:12] <scott_gonzalez> yeah, that's what Drupal does
[09:22:57] <jzaefferer> ah, okay
[09:23:02] <jzaefferer> maybe they took his code :p
[09:25:39] <kborchers> i'm still working on Menu, Menubar and Popup ... a little sidetracked with some client work lately but hoping to dig back in soon
[09:25:56] <kborchers> still having trouble getting Menu to work with tables
[09:27:15] <kborchers> events get screwy causing some weird visual stuff to happen (adding/removing styles at the wrong times)
[09:29:01] <scott_gonzalez> it works with arbitrary markup though, right?
[09:29:13] <scott_gonzalez> and non-direct-child menu items?
[09:30:19] <kborchers> arbitrary markup, yes ... non-direct-child it should but i need to test
[09:31:49] <scott_gonzalez> ok, if those work, then let's just move on without table support for now
[09:31:54] <scott_gonzalez> we can come back to it later
[09:33:18] <kborchers> ok ... looks like non-direct-child is a little off ... but should be an easy fix. i'll get that working and move on
[09:33:26] <scott_gonzalez> great
[09:33:32] <scott_gonzalez> anything else?
[09:35:56] <scott_gonzalez> oh, danheberden: jquery-ui-git.js is still stuck on a build from Oct 7
[09:36:09] <danheberden> ok, i'll give it a kick
[09:36:49] <scott_gonzalez> thanks
[09:38:03] <scott_gonzalez> I guess that's it
[09:39:10] <jzaefferer> no table menus sounds very reasonable
[09:39:19] <jzaefferer> we're messing with tables enough already on grid...
[09:40:58] <kborchers> yeah, i think it just gets messy because to get them to look like non-table menus you have to make tbody(if it exists) and tr's display:block; which messes with the flow and event bubbling gets crazy
[09:41:15] <kborchers> specifically in IE
[09:42:20] <jzaefferer> yeah, let's don't do that
[09:45:57] <jzaefferer> grid meeting in 15 minutes then, this is probably the longest agenda we had for grid in a long time
[09:46:10] <jzaefferer> most is progress updates though
[10:00:45] <brado23> hey
[10:04:13] <brado23> anyone around?
[10:04:23] <gnarf> yah
[10:05:47] <gnarf> everyoe else was just here... ;)
[10:05:50] <jzaefferer> hey brado23
[10:06:02] <jzaefferer> boris not around?
[10:06:17] <brado23> dunno...let me check...
[10:06:40] <brado23> He doesn't seem to be around.
[10:07:49] <jzaefferer> well, not much so say about template then
[10:08:06] <jzaefferer> we (briefly) discussed our wiki updates on the call last week already
[10:08:32] <borismoore> sorry - got held up...
[10:08:37] <jzaefferer> hey borismoore
[10:08:46] <jzaefferer> haven't actually started yet
[10:09:07] <borismoore> ok, cool :)
[10:09:56] <jzaefferer> so yeah, we should talk about the Tmpl proposal on the wiki, both API and syntax
[10:10:12] <jzaefferer> Richard and me couldn't quite agree on nested tags, so those are still missing
[10:10:23] <borismoore> I'm afraid I haven't been able to get to it
[10:10:37] <jzaefferer> should be schedule another meeting to review it?
[10:10:46] <jzaefferer> *should we?
[10:11:00] <borismoore> I will be doing a commit today or tomorrow, with some changes we could look at
[10:11:18] <borismoore> yes, but let me ping you when I have had cycles to look at that aspect
[10:11:32] <borismoore> so, not actually schedule yet...:)
[10:11:52] <jzaefferer> sure, but from my perspective, the major blocker in saying what it is the project wants to have as template was the lack of a spec that worked for us
[10:12:03] <borismoore> sure
[10:12:04] <jzaefferer> Mike's work was way too academic to be actually maintainable for us
[10:12:24] <borismoore> I'm getting close to something I'll document on the wiki
[10:12:34] <jzaefferer> okay, then check it out, and we can review together afterwards
[10:12:34] <borismoore> that you can then review per your requirements
[10:13:03] <jzaefferer> okay
[10:13:08] <borismoore> sure
[10:13:16] <borismoore> sounds good
[10:13:17] <jzaefferer> we kicked out a lot of implementation specific detail from that page
[10:13:26] <borismoore> I saw
[10:13:29] <borismoore> makes sense
[10:13:31] <jzaefferer> so depending on what it is you wanna document, repo readme or separate wiki page might be a better spot
[10:13:54] <borismoore> yeah, i'll choose 'the best place'
[10:13:59] <jzaefferer> alright
[10:14:13] <jzaefferer> Dataview, brado23 still hasn't delivered his nitpick review :p
[10:14:24] <jzaefferer> I did some updates, promoting dataviewlocal to the ui/ folder
[10:14:40] <brado23> yes, I'll do that today.
[10:14:57] <jzaefferer> getting some unit tests in place for preloader, which didn't help so far, didn't yet get my finder on where the race conditions happen
[10:15:09] <jzaefferer> once I figure that out, tests should help fix it
[10:15:40] <jzaefferer> (I'll go on with the rest of the agenda, just stop me if there's something you wanna discuss)
[10:15:58] <jzaefferer> Menugrid doesn't exist anymore, instead we now have two separate extensions for sorting and filtering
[10:16:10] <jzaefferer> sorting is simple enough that we can consider merging it into grid itself
[10:16:19] <jzaefferer> though that would go against the idea of the "zero feature grid"
[10:16:51] <jzaefferer> I've chatted with Wes Bos, who we met around the ARIA Hackathon in Toronto, first task would be to give the slideshow demos some actual visual design
[10:17:02] <jzaefferer> he may start on that in two weeks, hopefully sticks around
[10:17:08] <jzaefferer> we can use some prettier demos
[10:17:32] <jzaefferer> the Pager got an update, it can now be added without having to have existing markup
[10:17:41] <jzaefferer> the useless prevStep/nextStep methods are gone
[10:18:08] <jzaefferer> there's now a prototype for scroll-based paging, exercising the dataview in an interesting way: http://view.jqueryui.com/grid/grid-spf/products-scrolling.html
[10:18:31] <jzaefferer> so far its just a custom dataview generating infinite amount of random data, but should work just as well with actual remote data
[10:18:53] <jzaefferer> editing/selectable now uses a dialog to edit rows: http://view.jqueryui.com/grid/grid-editing/grid-selectable.html
[10:19:27] <jzaefferer> we've got some nice progress on Editable, it looks a lot better now: http://view.jqueryui.com/editable/demos/editable/buttons.html (click 'Edit all')
[10:19:46] <jzaefferer> Mask and Timepicker are pretty close to land in master, working on some more demos
[10:20:02] <jzaefferer> Selectmenu is not quite as close, not real unit test coverage yet
[10:20:11] <jzaefferer> need to replace various visual tests with unit tests
[10:20:16] <jzaefferer> that's all I got
[10:21:14] <brado23> you've been busy!
[10:21:55] <brado23> I can update on "observer"...if now's the right time.
[10:21:58] <jzaefferer> done a lot of reviewing end of last week, implementations on the train on sunday...
[10:22:22] <jzaefferer> also Felix, Rafael and Corey did a lot of work on custom inputs
[10:22:32] <jzaefferer> so yeah, forgot about that on the agenda
[10:22:35] <brado23> gr8
[10:22:42] <jzaefferer> please go ahead with observer
[10:23:02] <brado23> Yes, so I updated jquery.ui.grid.js to use "observer".  I'm pretty happy with the result.
[10:23:25] <brado23> Fixed the remaining grid-editing demos too to remove custom binding (in favor of $observer).
[10:23:44] <brado23> Here's a link to an observer demo...to give a sense of how it works:
[10:23:46] <brado23> http://brado23.github.com/jquery-ui/grid-editing/observer.html
[10:24:34] <brado23> It probably makes sense to take a look at the grid diff....I'll grab an URL here...
[10:25:42] <jzaefferer> k
[10:25:50] <brado23> https://github.com/brado23/jquery-ui/commit/c82ab8cd85adfb67ae8fb80fd8b86a49bfbcb240#ui/jquery.ui.grid.js
[10:25:57] <jzaefferer> also an explanation of that demo would be helpful
[10:26:15] <brado23> sure
[10:26:59] <brado23> If you view source on the demo, you'll see a JS literal for a list of customers.  The customers are heavily nested (array nesting objects nesting arrays...).
[10:27:21] <jzaefferer> right
[10:27:26] <jzaefferer> gnarf, you around?
[10:27:27] <brado23> When you run the demo, you'll see a sequence of observable edits at various levels of the model.
[10:27:32] <gnarf> yea
[10:27:39] <gnarf> reading over this diff :)
[10:27:43] <jzaefferer> cool
[10:28:08] <brado23> ...along with the as-spec'd edit event....along with a path down to the array/object that was edited.
[10:28:12] <jzaefferer> brado23, before we go on:
[10:28:18] <brado23> sure
[10:28:30] <jzaefferer> how is this different from or relates to data binding concepts like jsviews implements, or sproutcore or knockoutjs
[10:28:31] <jzaefferer> ?
[10:28:49] <jzaefferer> seems like it addresses same or at least similar issue
[10:28:54] <brado23> good question
[10:28:54] <jzaefferer> or does it?
[10:29:09] <jzaefferer> would help me understand the concept better
[10:30:50] <brado23> $.observer is similar to JsViews, et al, in the sense that it is a helper that gets folks out of the business of dynamic binding to the various atoms in a model..
[10:31:02] <jzaefferer> okay
[10:31:52] <jzaefferer> let me poke around a bit at some details:
[10:31:58] <brado23> It's different from JsViews, etc, in the sense that it doesn't dictate a model for recomputing UI....that's up to the client of $.observer.
[10:32:06] <jzaefferer> looking at: $.observable( customersObserver.getAt(0).data ).property( "age", 35 );
[10:32:22] <jzaefferer> could that be this? customersObserver.getAt(0).property( "age", 35 );
[10:33:08] <borismoore> JsViews is to do with declarative binding of UI to data, with live binding for changes. So it listens to deep changes, when required, and provides the UI binding
[10:33:18] <borismoore> observer is a programmatic layer,
[10:33:36] <borismoore> which could be used by JsViews to replace some of its current code
[10:33:45] <jzaefferer> so observer is not coupled to the UI, but abstracts the bindings below?
[10:33:52] <borismoore> - the deep binding aspect
[10:33:56] <brado23> yes, that's right.
[10:34:04] <borismoore> that's what I am seeing
[10:34:12] <borismoore> but Brad can confirm
[10:34:35] <brado23> yes.  It's just a way to demux editing events from the N atoms in a model up to some single listener.
[10:34:41] <borismoore> I haven't seen this before, so I am not looking at the observer implementation
[10:35:15] <brado23> As conceived today....observer and observable are decoupled.
[10:35:28] <brado23> they only share editing events as a common dependency
[10:35:37] <borismoore> and it does the bind/unbind when you add remove from arrays...
[10:35:40] <borismoore> ?
[10:35:46] <brado23> yes
[10:35:53] <brado23> wanna resume on Skype?
[10:35:55] <borismoore> or add object members
[10:35:59] <brado23> yup
[10:36:05] <jzaefferer> lemme find a quite spot
[10:36:14] <brado23> it maintains a parallel tree of observers
[10:36:27] <brado23> ...parallel to the model...
[10:36:44] <borismoore> but does it not use observable internally ?
[10:36:49] <gnarf> ( i can't do skype today, but go ahead w/o me ;) )
[10:36:59] <borismoore> or is that only the events that you really need?
[10:37:01] <brado23> no, it only uses editing events internally
[10:37:13] <brado23> that's all that's needed
[10:37:36] <brado23> observer is only for reasoning over events...not making edits.
[10:37:44] <brado23> observable is for making edits
[10:38:29] <jzaefferer> brado23: wanna join on Skype?
[10:38:45] <brado23> yeah...one sec
[10:39:14] <brado23> sigh....slow Skype...
[11:26:19] <jzaefferer> we'll likely cancel the grid meeting next week
[11:44:17] <gnarf> i wont be here for meetings next week
[11:45:06] <gnarf> out of town in austin
[11:47:44] <jzaefferer> Boris likely isn't around, I'll be at a conference
[11:48:05] <jzaefferer> dunno Richard's status for next week, but there's probably not much going to happen on Monday/Tuesday
[19:23:15] <pc-moon> anybody there
[19:31:16] <pc-moon> hello , i wanna help , how i can change values of get ex: example.com/?p=home i wanna way way to change p=index