[09:02:13] <gnarf> danheberden: cant decide?
[09:02:19] <danheberden> got a little click happy
[09:02:26] <rworth> hey all
[09:02:33] <danheberden> BAM
[09:02:55] <jzaefferer> jQuery UI meeting! let's get started
[09:02:59] <toddparker> Hi all
[09:03:07] <RTPMatt> hello
[09:03:08] <danheberden> almost here - responding to an email from a client that says "why are you ignoring me???" ( he called me last night at 7pm, and i didn't pick up" lol
[09:03:09] <jzaefferer> agenda, freshly updated: http://bit.ly/jqueryui-agenda
[09:04:48] <jzaefferer> scott_gonzalez, wanna start?
[09:04:50] <danheberden> ok here :)
[09:05:01] <scott_gonzalez> sure
[09:05:14] <danheberden> well i can start on infra stuff it you'd like
[09:05:22] <scott_gonzalez> yes, please :-)
[09:06:00] <danheberden> well the view.jqueryui.com stuff you've seen
[09:06:17] <danheberden> the dir listing still needs to be done, but that might help anyone unfamiliar with the url structure at least
[09:06:47] <danheberden> hotlinking issues aren't with themeswitcher, but it sounds like that needs to be a separate project that can target the cdn specifically?
[09:06:51] <danheberden> e.g. particular versions
[09:07:00] <rworth> just fixed #7456 , scott_gonzalez: can you push an update on jqueryui.com to make it live ?
[09:07:19] <scott_gonzalez> rworth: yeah
[09:07:24] <scott_gonzalez> is it merged to production already?
[09:07:26] <danheberden> infra stuff will be a team email later this morning
[09:07:29] <rworth> scott_gonzalez: yup
[09:07:53] <scott_gonzalez> thanks
[09:08:23] <scott_gonzalez> danheberden: ok, we'll wait for the email
[09:08:48] <scott_gonzalez> we've got a lot of infra stuff that's been on hold for a while, hopefully we can bang some of this stuff out or at least split it out into a larger project
[09:09:34] <scott_gonzalez> moving on to docs
[09:09:45] <scott_gonzalez> the Project Silk widget factory chapter is available
[09:09:57] <scott_gonzalez> it's decent
[09:10:13] <scott_gonzalez> I sent them some comments
[09:10:29] <scott_gonzalez> ajpiano: what's the status of the docs on the planning wiki/
[09:10:30] <jzaefferer> do we want to promote that?
[09:10:52] <scott_gonzalez> probably, but they need to make it easier to get to
[09:10:59] <scott_gonzalez> appendTo is going to talk to them about that
[09:11:09] <jzaefferer> okay
[09:11:13] <ajpiano> they haven't changed - i'm gonna make that my plane activity on friday to look at the widget chapter and see what, if anything, we might actually want to pull into docs
[09:11:18] <scott_gonzalez> right now you have to go to the Project Slik download page, then agree to some licensing terms, then you can download a PDF
[09:12:39] <scott_gonzalez> the new widget demo is live
[09:12:44] <scott_gonzalez> I fixed some bugs with it last night
[09:12:49] <scott_gonzalez> http://view.jqueryui.com/master/demos/widget/default.html
[09:13:45] <scott_gonzalez> rworth: XML update?
[09:13:52] <scott_gonzalez> how'd the docs meeting go?
[09:13:56] <rworth> we met Mon
[09:14:01] <gnarf> I missed it :/
[09:14:04] <rworth> went well, had danheberden and jzaefferer
[09:14:09] <rworth> and yes, we missed gnarf
[09:14:12] <danheberden> and we were delicious
[09:14:25] <danheberden> ajpiano was lurking
[09:14:27] <rworth> we got caught up on the status of the spec.xml and xslt
[09:14:32] <rworth> yes, thank you
[09:14:52] <gnarf> did the XML files I made for the 3 effects look alright?
[09:14:59] <rworth> I'm updating the xslt as it's not currently outputting everything in the xml
[09:15:25] <jzaefferer> the xml files can now be opened in the browser directly, no need to run ant
[09:15:35] <gnarf> and out of curiosity, are we going to put any "category" information into this XML?  the old format doesn't need it because the WP posts are categorized...
[09:15:36] <rworth> also we made a spec change so if you have an option that accepts multiple types, insted of
[09:15:41] <jzaefferer> though needs correct content-type, so still need checkout and local server
[09:15:45] <rworth> <option name="foo" type="String|Boolen">
[09:15:49] <rworth> you now do
[09:15:49] <jzaefferer> though we could use gh-pages
[09:16:25] <rworth> <option name="foo"><desc>General</desc><type name="String"><desc>String specific desc</desc></type><type name="Boolean" />
[09:16:28] <jzaefferer> that's a good change, should be interesting for core, too
[09:16:36] <jzaefferer> should we try to get Karl involved?
[09:16:40] <rworth> yes
[09:16:56] <gnarf> also, johnathansampson has been lurking asking about helping with docs
[09:16:56] <rworth> he's been involved in various phases
[09:17:05] <danheberden> awirick too
[09:17:07] <jzaefferer> I'll create the gh-pages branch, easy live preview then without checkout
[09:17:19] <danheberden> i think he can help out with the xslt stuffs
[09:17:22] <rworth> in general, he's anxious for us to get something up, proven, as far as running a site from static files in github
[09:17:37] <rworth> then present to him a migration path from their current XML to some new XML
[09:17:44] <ipodtouchpro44> Hi!
[09:17:58] <rworth> jzaefferer: great idea!
[09:18:05] <danheberden> basically, we're the guinea pigs and he wants to reap all the rewards of our hard work
[09:18:05] <ipodtouchpro44> Ya des français ?
[09:18:08] <jzaefferer> rworth, talking about Karl?
[09:18:14] <rworth> danheberden: pretty much
[09:18:17] <rworth> jzaefferer: yes
[09:18:21] <jzaefferer> how different is the core xml at this point?
[09:18:40] <rworth> we've diverged a bit, but we're doing so with <entry type="widget">
[09:18:41] <danheberden> ipodtouchpro44 this is a meeting for jquery-ui in english, regarding it's development. It might help to sit back and observe for a bit :)
[09:19:11] <gnarf> are we planning on meeting pre-core again monday?
[09:19:26] <rworth> been a while since I've done a comparison back to core xml, but I don't think there are any showstoppers
[09:19:36] <rworth> little nudges like above
[09:19:39] <danheberden> nothing that it does that we cna't
[09:19:43] <danheberden> just the ability to express more things
[09:19:45] <rworth> yup
[09:19:55] <gnarf> two "show stoppers" i see aren't the XML - its just organization... categories / reusables
[09:20:15] <danheberden> bye ipodtouchpro44
[09:20:20] <rworth> gnarf: reusables like a piece of content you want to repeat in different places?
[09:20:20] <jzaefferer> even if we got some changes, if they can be auto-migrated with another xslt...
[09:20:40] <rworth> gnarf: are you caught up on our extension plan? Perhaps you have an idea about implementation
[09:20:40] <gnarf> rworth: yeah, the wp api has this reusables thing that has the "additional information" notes
[09:20:42] <danheberden> rworth: like the demos in external files; but that should still be optional
[09:20:50] <rworth> jzaefferer: yeah, that's my thinking
[09:20:54] <gnarf> rworth: don't think I'm caught up
[09:20:54] <rworth> should be doable
[09:21:07] <danheberden> rworth that'll probalby work for content too
[09:21:38] <rworth> gnarf: so since each widget's js inherit from widget js, we're thinking each widget's xml can inherit from widget xml
[09:21:52] <rworth> gnarf: you can see this now in widget.xml and accordion.xml
[09:22:00] <gnarf> interestin
[09:22:04] <rworth> xcept we haven't implemented yet, so it can only be seen in the xml
[09:22:08] <rworth> not the xslt or html
[09:22:09] <gnarf> :)
[09:22:15] <jzaefferer> let's get back to that at the end of the meeting or in the next docs meeting
[09:22:17] <rworth> but the idea is just merge two/more xml files
[09:22:21] <rworth> ok, done
[09:22:41] <gnarf> aye -dev chat later (super busy day for me after this meeting)
[09:22:50] <rworth> k
[09:23:03] <jzaefferer> selectmenu meeting going down tomorrow at noon EST
[09:23:27] <jzaefferer> if you're on the list on the wiki, you should be in the skype chat room already
[09:23:36] <jzaefferer> if not and still want to join, add yourself and ping me
[09:24:17] <jzaefferer> next, Tooltip
[09:24:25] <jzaefferer> anyone from Wijmo around?
[09:24:39] <scott_gonzalez> WIIIJJJJMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[09:24:56] <scott_gonzalez> guess not
[09:24:57] <jzaefferer> doesn't look like it, could get back to that on the grid meeting
[09:25:17] <jzaefferer> Spinner
[09:25:21] <jzaefferer> Scott, any estimate?
[09:25:40] <scott_gonzalez> nope, been pretty busy last week and this week
[09:26:03] <jzaefferer> okay
[09:26:09] <jzaefferer> did Hans look at spinner's ARIA?
[09:26:22] <scott_gonzalez> also, I'll be gone from the 21st-26th
[09:26:48] <scott_gonzalez> not sure
[09:27:08] <jzaefferer> could ask him to test it, could tackle a few other issues while at it
[09:27:58] <jzaefferer> I'll ask
[09:28:11] <scott_gonzalez> ok
[09:28:16] <jzaefferer> Download Builder rewrite, ThemeRoller reo...
[09:28:16] <rworth> scott_gonzalez: don't say another cruise
[09:28:23] <scott_gonzalez> camping
[09:29:06] <rworth> has anyone expressed interest in leading ThemeRoller redo?
[09:29:10] <jzaefferer> are we still betting on Yehuda?
[09:29:11] <rworth> we've had that open for some time
[09:29:13] <danheberden> camping on a 12 story cruise ship
[09:29:21] <rworth> we haven't at all, not for TR
[09:29:25] <scott_gonzalez> let's push both of those off for two more weeks
[09:29:29] <scott_gonzalez> we're not getting anywhere
[09:29:37] <rworth> ok
[09:29:39] <scott_gonzalez> let's focus on the projects that are actually picking up momentum again
[09:29:47] <scott_gonzalez> then once those are on track, we can come back to these
[09:29:47] <danheberden> rworth how many times are you gonna ask that after i was assigned to it, lol
[09:29:52] <scott_gonzalez> see who's available at that time
[09:30:04] <rworth> danheberden: your name isn't here
[09:30:15] <danheberden> ha
[09:30:25] <danheberden> i mean, ya - who's gonna do that?
[09:30:34] <rworth> danheberden: I volunteer you for so many things, hard to keep track
[09:30:40] <danheberden> lol
[09:30:40] <gnarf> :)
[09:30:43] <scott_gonzalez> oops, that's my fault, I forgot to update that line
[09:31:00] <danheberden> i was just going to ask gnarf to do all the work so i could take credit anyway
[09:31:05] <rworth> ok, so, we'll look forward to an update from danheberden next week
[09:31:20] <scott_gonzalez> haha
[09:31:23] <rworth> danheberden: that's why we keep him (and you) around
[09:31:38] <danheberden> rworth ya, i have some other tasks related to that wrt backend team and front-end
[09:31:47] <danheberden> and doug needs to start making these meetings, ya?
[09:32:02] <scott_gonzalez> anyone want to meet tomorrow to do pull request/bug triage?
[09:32:04] <danheberden> we should shake him or prank his phone or something
[09:32:05] <rworth> danheberden: for now it's all on ui end
[09:32:16] <rworth> we need to figure out what we have and what we need
[09:32:30] <gnarf> scott_gonzalez: if I'm around, I could...
[09:32:42] <danheberden> rworth - ya, not just TR but i got ya
[09:34:03] <rworth> scott_gonzalez: I could for like an hour. Any time is good for me
[09:34:04] <gnarf> scott_gonzalez: what time are you thinking?
[09:34:15] <scott_gonzalez> whenever works for others
[09:34:26] <jzaefferer> lots of CSS issues involved, right?
[09:34:42] <gnarf> scott_gonzalez: right round noon/1 ET works well for me
[09:34:51] <jzaefferer> having doug or toddparker around would be good I suspect
[09:34:57] <rworth> after the selectmenu mtg then
[09:35:04] <jzaefferer> yeah, that's at noon
[09:35:07] <scott_gonzalez> jzaefferer: yeah, but we can at least group those together and organize a meeting with the design team for those
[09:35:13] <jzaefferer> good point
[09:35:37] <scott_gonzalez> ok, I'm hoping to work on UI all day tomorrow
[09:35:46] <scott_gonzalez> so whenever people are around, just let me know
[09:35:54] <scott_gonzalez> and we'll plan dedicated time after the selectmenu meeting
[09:36:51] <scott_gonzalez> ok, ARIA hackathon
[09:37:05] <scott_gonzalez> Hans is coming and the vote has passed to cover his flight :-)
[09:37:28] <jzaefferer> asked Hans to review Spinner to provide feedback before you start working on it, scott_gonzalez, he's going to do that
[09:37:31] <scott_gonzalez> sponsors: Mozilla is confirmed, Adobe can't help out right now, still waiting to hear back from MS and Opera
[09:37:34] <scott_gonzalez> I'll ping them again
[09:37:45] <jzaefferer> IBM hasn't responded, the guy is on vacation
[09:37:50] <jzaefferer> for another week
[09:38:13] <scott_gonzalez> ok
[09:38:29] <scott_gonzalez> gnarf: I assume nothing new on effects
[09:38:41] <scott_gonzalez> just working on effects docs right now, right?
[09:38:56] <gnarf> yeah - that and waiting to pull color in
[09:39:06] * rworth loves color
[09:39:39] <danheberden> gnarf did a fantastic job with it
[09:39:48] <scott_gonzalez> :-)
[09:39:49] <jzaefferer> should we keep effects on the agenda?
[09:40:07] <scott_gonzalez> no, we can remove for the next meeting
[09:40:40] <gnarf> no updates from lindstroem re text effects either
[09:40:47] <scott_gonzalez> we need to land 1.6.1 in master and 1-8-stable
[09:41:06] <scott_gonzalez> that's a ton of testing
[09:41:14] <scott_gonzalez> I'll be starting that this afternoon
[09:41:27] <scott_gonzalez> once that's done, we can push 1.8.14
[09:41:32] <gnarf> is it possible to get rid of the version # on the jquery file so we don't have to change a ton of files every time?
[09:41:32] <rworth> yay
[09:41:39] <rworth> gnarf: wontfix
[09:41:59] <rworth> gnarf: I'm happy to link to a ticket that explains why :)
[09:42:09] <scott_gonzalez> I was just going to say we should find the ticket
[09:42:34] <jzaefferer> do we expect any complications with 1.6.1?
[09:42:39] <rworth> http://bugs.jqueryui.com/ticket/7171
[09:43:20] <jzaefferer> btw. live preview of xml docs: http://scottgonzalez.github.com/jquery-docs/jquery-ui/accordion/accordion.xml
[09:43:32] <jzaefferer> live transformed in the browser
[09:43:43] <jzaefferer> Blizzard is actually building full websites that way...
[09:43:49] <rworth> jzaefferer: There was a forum thread this morning reporting an issue with dialog position and he was using 1.6.1, but no test case, I asked him to provide one. No idea if related
[09:44:18] <rworth> jzaefferer: slickness
[09:45:14] <scott_gonzalez> ok, last item
[09:45:24] <scott_gonzalez> Alex Dovenmuehle quit his job and has time for UI again
[09:45:33] <scott_gonzalez> you may have noticed him commenting on dialog tickets
[09:45:49] <rworth> seemed focused, yes
[09:45:51] <scott_gonzalez> he asked me what he should work on, I suggested dialog tickets since it's the next widget for the API refactor
[09:46:12] <jzaefferer> is he in irc?
[09:46:16] <scott_gonzalez> if there's somewhere else we'd like him to work, we can get him to work on something else
[09:46:31] <scott_gonzalez> not right now, he has been
[09:46:38] <jzaefferer> okay
[09:46:41] <jzaefferer> review pull requests?
[09:46:43] <scott_gonzalez> actually
[09:46:46] <scott_gonzalez> hold on
[09:47:17] <jzaefferer> ah, in #jquery-dev, I see
[09:47:21] <scott_gonzalez> he's in #jquery-dev
[09:47:29] <scott_gonzalez> yeah, not sure if he's actually "there" though
[09:47:30] <jzaefferer> invitehim to #jqueryui-dev, too
[09:47:44] <scott_gonzalez> yeah, I'll ping him about that
[09:47:49] <scott_gonzalez> I usually talk to him via jabber
[09:47:53] <jzaefferer> but yeah, dialog tickets and reviewing pull requests?
[09:48:03] <scott_gonzalez> sure
[09:48:13] <jzaefferer> maybe invite him to the triaging tomorrow
[09:48:57] <scott_gonzalez> for those that aren't aware who Alex is, he did most of the accordion refactor
[09:49:42] <scott_gonzalez> he's also gnarf's predecessor for explaining queueing to me :-P
[09:50:31] <adoven> hmm
[09:50:55] <scott_gonzalez> yay, he's here
[09:51:00] <scott_gonzalez> just in time for the meeting to end :-P
[09:51:05] <adoven> fashionably late
[09:51:25] <scott_gonzalez> we're going to be reviewing pull requests tomorrow at 1:00p, interested in joining?
[09:51:42] <adoven> sure, est?
[09:51:49] <adoven> (eastern)?
[09:51:49] <scott_gonzalez> yeah
[09:51:51] <adoven> kk
[09:52:19] <scott_gonzalez> cool
[09:52:20] <jzaefferer> hey, chrisBannon is here
[09:52:32] <scott_gonzalez> hey chrisBannon
[09:52:43] <jzaefferer> chrisBannon, did you or anyone else at Wijmo review our current Tooltip implementation?
[09:52:59] <chrisBannon> no
[09:53:19] <scott_gonzalez> would be interesting to know if you're able to use it as a base for Wijmo's tooltip
[09:53:37] <chrisBannon> we looked at it in november as a prototype, but not since. would you like us to look at it?
[09:53:38] <jzaefferer> we don't have the callouts right now
[09:53:55] <jzaefferer> yes, its very solid by now
[09:54:26] <chrisBannon> ok, so you are looking to see if it is extensible?
[09:54:45] <chrisBannon> are you also looking for feedback on usage or just extensibility?
[09:54:46] <scott_gonzalez> yeah
[09:54:47] <rworth> I was going to say those could be added by .tooltip("widget") but I remembered scott_gonzalez saying that's not reliable for tooltip ?
[09:55:04] <scott_gonzalez> any kind of feedback would be great
[09:55:08] <rworth> indeed
[09:55:22] <chrisBannon> ok, we can look at it
[09:55:24] <jzaefferer> widget method doesn't work for tooltip, but open callback can be used for customizations
[09:55:38] <jzaefferer> comments on http://wiki.jqueryui.com/w/page/12138112/Tooltip are welcome
[09:55:54] <scott_gonzalez> yeah, the problem with the widget method is delegated tooltips have lots of elements
[09:56:07] <JohnAyers> right
[09:56:36] <chrisBannon> yeah, we made that architectural change from our original design (which was one to one)
[09:59:10] <scott_gonzalez> rworth: deployed jqueryui.com
[10:00:45] <rworth> scott_gonzalez: thanks
[10:00:58] <rworth> ok, thanks everyone. see you next week
[10:01:12] <rworth> and in #jqueryui-dev in the meantime
[10:01:30] <rworth> ok, let's start the grid meeting then
[10:01:53] <jzaefferer> as usual, agenda here: bit.ly/jqueryui-agenda
[10:01:59] <rworth> thanks
[10:02:14] <rworth> I'll give a quick update on grid-selecting
[10:02:32] <rworth> I've spec'ed out some selecting patterns on the Grid-Selecting wiki page
[10:02:56] <rworth> still to spec out is keyboard alone, keyboard with modifiers, and keyboard plus mouse with modifiers
[10:03:13] <rworth> I've also started collecting samples in the wild such as web and desktop applications
[10:03:38] <rworth> I'll be doing up some screenshots or mockups as well, esp. to demonstrate anchor and focus and range vs. lasso
[10:04:03] <jzaefferer> what about mouse click (+ mod keys)?
[10:04:29] <jzaefferer> is that a 0x0 lasso?
[10:04:48] <rworth> that could be either lasso or range
[10:05:27] <rworth> once I finish the existing TODOs I'll make sure it's captured in one of them or one its own, thanks
[10:05:32] <jzaefferer> sounds like it should be listed as seperate pattern
[10:06:07] <jzaefferer> current Selectable implements mouse lasso (and 0x0) lasso, with and without modifier keys, but nothing else?
[10:06:25] <rworth> either that or it's keyboard and mouse but you don't use any arrow keys
[10:06:29] <jzaefferer> did you get around to checking Paul's prototype?
[10:06:57] <rworth> jzaefferer: that's correct
[10:07:25] <rworth> jzaefferer: I have not yet, I want this finished as a reference first
[10:07:40] <jzaefferer> make sense
[10:07:51] <jzaefferer> finish this spec, then review the two existing implementations
[10:07:54] <rworth> yup
[10:08:17] <jzaefferer> up next, editing events
[10:08:44] <jzaefferer> there was a meeting and some email conversations on that, and brado23 did a lot of updates on the wiki page: bit.ly/jqueryui-agenda
[10:08:51] <jzaefferer> sorry, here: http://wiki.jqueryui.com/w/page/40632995/Grid-Editing-Events
[10:09:08] <brado23> Yes, I updated "open issues" to reflect...
[10:09:25] <jzaefferer> reset is now refresh, there's objectchange and fieldchange events on the collection, too
[10:09:37] <brado23> Yes, that's right.
[10:09:42] <jzaefferer> brado23, something in particular you'd like to discuss here?
[10:10:13] <brado23> Based on follow-up emails, I propose that we table the "cancelability / pre-change event" topic...
[10:10:25] <brado23> ...see how we might treat this as a control feature first.
[10:10:32] <brado23> Wanted to get ACK on that.
[10:10:57] <jzaefferer> that's reasonable - so keep it out of the data model, but implement them in the grid component
[10:11:04] <brado23> Separately, you can look at "objectchange" events...in the space of "batched updates" which seemed to be a common ask last week.
[10:11:06] <jzaefferer> e.g. as part of the inline editor
[10:11:24] <brado23> @jzaefferer -- yes, that's my thinking too
[10:11:55] <jzaefferer> so for "batched updates", you just subscribe to objectchange and not fieldchange?
[10:12:04] <chrisBannon> yes, we came to the same conclusion here. the model doesnt need the pre-events, but the grid should have them
[10:12:30] <brado23> jzaefferer -- Yes, that's right.
[10:12:58] <brado23> There's an open question as to whether N "fieldchange" are issued when a single "objectchange" is.
[10:13:01] <jzaefferer> added a todo for the inline editor on the main editing page: http://wiki.jqueryui.com/w/page/40076465/Grid-Editing
[10:13:18] <brado23> That is, as a listener, do I subscribe to one or both of "objectchange" and "fieldchange"?
[10:13:59] <borismoore> In many cases having a batch which spans more than one object be a scenario too
[10:14:06] <brado23> Unless you have opinions now, I think it's safe to table this...until I can present $.observable.setField as a wrapper around a batch of field updates (like attr()).
[10:14:24] <borismoore> Sure
[10:15:06] <jzaefferer> setField is probably too fine-grained to handle objectchange?
[10:15:06] <brado23> For a preview of "setField", you might just eyeball the code snippet towards the bottom of "open issues", to get an idea of how this batches N field updates to a single object.
[10:15:23] <jzaefferer> ah
[10:15:33] <jzaefferer> $.observable(myCustomer).setField( {
[10:15:33] <jzaefferer>     FirstName: "Fred",
[10:15:33] <jzaefferer>     "Address.ZipCode": "98002"
[10:15:33] <jzaefferer> } );
[10:15:38] <jzaefferer> that makes sense
[10:15:40] <brado23> right.  thx
[10:15:47] <chrisBannon> sproutcore has a beginObjectChange (or something like that) which prevents the change event from firing until after the endObjectChange (or whatever the name is) is called
[10:16:19] <brado23> yes, that's an idea too.  Too bad it makes the data model even more stateful.
[10:16:22] <rworth> but that's only to batch notifications, yes? Not batch for cancel
[10:16:25] <chrisBannon> so un between those two calls you can make as many modifications as needed until the listener is told it can raise events again
[10:16:38] <chrisBannon> correct, just for batch
[10:17:05] <jzaefferer> I think in both cases that's more of an API problem, not of the events itself
[10:17:16] <borismoore> That setfield on multiple paths pattern is in my observable prototype, BTW, -
[10:17:28] <jzaefferer> should we look at more API examples?
[10:18:09] <brado23> We can do that now...or I was planning to distill this a bit from Boris' $.observable wiki page.
[10:18:10] <jzaefferer> or rather get through the open issues list first
[10:18:32] <jzaefferer> let's get that done first, then prepare API examples and discuss those
[10:18:37] <brado23> I think the open issues are covered by "objectchange" and/or "setField".
[10:18:41] <borismoore> Also be clear on scenario goals. Cancelling, versus batching UI updates for perceived perf
[10:18:42] <jzaefferer> so, did "Should N "fieldchange" events be issued in addition to a single "objectchange" event?" get answered?
[10:19:13] <brado23> No, any opinions?
[10:19:25] <jzaefferer> seems like as a view component, you subscribe to fieldchange or objectchange, not both
[10:19:32] <JohnAyers> agreed
[10:19:40] <borismoore> I think a solution can be that field-level events can be single or as batches.
[10:19:48] <jzaefferer> if you can render individual fields, use fieldchange, otherwise objectchange to update the form/row
[10:19:49] <JohnAyers> i would assume most people will handle objectchange as a refresh
[10:20:13] <brado23> JohnAyers -- that's how I think about objectchange ~= refresh
[10:20:20] <jzaefferer> to persist changes to server, use objectchange
[10:20:45] <borismoore> I have an idea about integrating the two. I'll discuss with Brad and maybe then put it in the wiki.
[10:20:50] <jzaefferer> therefore, "Should N "fieldchange" events be issued in addition to a single "objectchange" event?" -> Yes
[10:20:53] <jzaefferer> right? wrong?
[10:21:12] <jzaefferer> borismoore, integrating which two?
[10:21:17] <JohnAyers> will fieldchange also raise collection events (e.g., modifying a field in a sorted column)?
[10:21:29] <borismoore> object and field - batch and single
[10:21:42] <rworth> alright if we call them records+fields or objects+properties? Seems weird to have objects with feilds
[10:21:52] <brado23> John -- yes, that's what I'm proposing
[10:22:01] <rworth> I'm happy with collections
[10:22:04] <JohnAyers> great
[10:22:05] <jzaefferer> good point rworth
[10:22:05] <brado23> ..save controls listening on objects and on a collection
[10:22:45] <brado23> yes, we should snap to object/array or record/collection.  We're mixing right now.
[10:23:04] <brado23> I'm mixing
[10:23:06] <jzaefferer> field/record/collection?
[10:23:15] <brado23> Sure
[10:23:17] <rworth> ok
[10:23:56] <jzaefferer> if we have fieldchange and objectchange, should we (again!) rename collectionrefresh to collectionchange?
[10:24:10] <jzaefferer> err, fieldchange and recordchange
[10:24:18] <JohnAyers> :D
[10:25:16] <brado23> what we have now is triggerHandler("collectionchange", { change: "refresh" })...there is no "collectionrefresh"...
[10:26:09] <jzaefferer> okay
[10:26:39] <borismoore> Just got back - had lost IRC connection
[10:26:47] <jzaefferer> what if we change the granularity there to .trigger("collectionchange"), .trigger("collectioninsert"), .trigger("collectionremove") etc.?
[10:27:13] <jzaefferer> that could make sense, while change: "change" is certainly silly
[10:27:37] <brado23_> my IRC dropped for a moment
[10:27:53] <jzaefferer> what if we change the granularity there to .trigger("collectionchange"), .trigger("collectioninsert"), .trigger("collectionremove") etc.?
[10:27:53] <jzaefferer> that could make sense, while change: "change" is certainly silly
[10:28:26] <brado23_> that's alot of event types to register on...or am I misreading you
[10:28:28] <JohnAyers> i'd vote for the single event
[10:28:34] <borismoore> me too
[10:29:23] <brado23_> with a single "collectionchange", you have change: "remove"/"insert"/"refresh"/et al.
[10:29:24] <borismoore> You only ever really want to register on all collection changes
[10:29:37] <jzaefferer> good point
[10:29:45] <borismoore> You can filter what you do with the change, based on type
[10:29:49] <jzaefferer> what's the field/object equivalent?
[10:30:23] <borismoore> On field/object you only have value changes on paths
[10:30:30] <brado23_> Right now, it's two separate events -- "recordchange" and "fieldchange"
[10:30:51] <brado23_> ...although I admit that this is different than the single collectionchange
[10:31:35] <jzaefferer> the context for recordchange and fieldchange is the same object, right?
[10:31:36] <JohnAyers> not much happens with field change other than the value changing
[10:31:47] <brado23_> but if we want folks to listen on one (not both) of "recordchange" and "fieldchange", then they need to be distinct event types
[10:32:05] <jzaefferer> though as discussed, for those you want to subscribe to either the one or the other, so seperate events make sense
[10:32:10] <borismoore> Can we table record versus field for now. I think we need batches that span different objects/sub objects etc.
[10:32:25] <borismoore> So it could be confusing to push that into an object change event
[10:33:10] <rworth> we're over time. Any topics we still need to cover before we conclude?
[10:33:25] <borismoore> Quick status from me
[10:33:27] <brado23_> I'll connect with Boris re: "span different objects"
[10:33:36] <borismoore> Data linking: iterate on implementation to have single code-base for declarative and explicit bindings (integrated with templates) and improved perf and maintainability.
[10:33:38] <rworth> and if needed, let's schedule an(other) meetings to discuss these things in more details
[10:33:46] <borismoore> Did a lot of work, and completed this phase of JsViews
[10:33:56] <borismoore> Study delta between Mike Samuel's implementation of jQuery template rendering and current implementation, for scenario and feature coverage
[10:34:02] <borismoore> This is under way... working in this area for the next week
[10:34:09] <borismoore> Extended pager control and review of datasource will be the week after that.
[10:34:22] <borismoore> That's my status
[10:34:55] <jzaefferer> chrisBannon_, JohnAyers, might someone from wijmo be interested in joining the selectmenu planning call?
[10:35:10] <JohnAyers> sure
[10:35:29] <jzaefferer> should I add you then?
[10:35:39] <JohnAyers> please do.  tentative date/time?
[10:35:41] <jzaefferer> tomorrow at noon EDT
[10:35:45] <jzaefferer> http://wiki.jqueryui.com/w/page/12138056/Selectmenu
[10:35:48] <JohnAyers> ok
[10:36:06] <chrisBannon_> is it weekly? I can join next week moving forward
[10:36:08] <jzaefferer> added you to the Skype group for that
[10:36:16] <jzaefferer> chrisBannon_, not really
[10:36:26] <jzaefferer> will integrate that into regular UI/Grid calls going forward
[10:36:50] <jzaefferer> tomorrow is for reviewing the existing work, getting input from contributors (people working on a fork of FGs impl), and working on the specification
[10:36:51] <chrisBannon_> ok
[10:36:59] <brado23_> I'll develop wiki content emerging from "setField" for batched update.  I think it will possibly set a context for more record/field change discussion.
[10:37:28] <jzaefferer> brado23_, could you put the code samples directly beneatch each individual event? that would clarify the scope of each event
[10:37:44] <jzaefferer> *beneath
[10:38:08] <jzaefferer> also I've started a TODOs list there, to seperate descision from discussion topics
[10:38:31] <jzaefferer> I'd add more to it, but lost track a bit on what where we are with that now
[10:38:41] <jzaefferer> we can sync on that later if you want
[10:39:35] <jzaefferer> PM says yes
[10:39:41] <jzaefferer> alright, guess that's it for today
[10:40:19] <jzaefferer> Richard and me will to some stage planning and estimating, will share that on wiki and at meeting next week
[10:40:55] <rworth> thanks all
[10:41:02] <borismoore> thanks
[10:41:30] <JohnAyers> thanks
[10:41:47] <chrisBannon_> thanks