[11:36:23] arschmitz sfrisk: My roommate just made a good point. Turning off Media Queries isn't really best practice if we're going for best practices with this thing. [11:36:41] true [11:36:46] it is if you are making something specificly for only mobile devices in a hybrid app [11:36:50] Yes, we can make it an option. [11:36:57] But that's still not best practice. [11:37:03] well it won't be a default option [11:37:15] we'll make a note that says "welp, we think you're silly to do things this way, buuuut" [11:37:29] I don't even want to do that. [11:37:34] michaelarestad: what is not best practice about it in something that has no reason to be responsive [11:37:54] If you're building for web, a thing should be responsive. [11:37:55] there are many hybrid apps that run only on iphones for example not even ipads [11:37:58] That's pretty much end of story. [11:38:04] Even if it's only a little bit. [11:38:04] michaelarestad: thats not web [11:38:11] that hybrid [11:38:19] True. [11:38:30] its a packed app only distributed to your chosen platforms and deivces [11:38:46] its one of the main uses of jQuery mobile [11:38:56] Interesting. [11:39:00] phonegap and cordova [11:39:07] Kinda grosses me out a little, but I get why. [11:39:24] Okay. Cool. [11:39:33] im not saying you should do it for the web [11:39:43] This whole thing kinda brings up a need for maybe a media query mixin. [11:39:44] im saying there are legit usecases where it is best to exclude them [11:39:55] If so, I've got a few pretty crazy ones just lying around. [11:40:38] (Note that I prefer media queries avoid mixins, but it's a pretty popular/common thing in larger projects) [11:40:47] michaelarestad: in packaged apps like that its important to keep things minimal because things are buggy enough in them lol extra unsed css is just aksing for problems [11:41:16] Do Media queries even function in a hybrid app? [11:41:21] yes [11:41:28] there is still a viewport [11:41:33] And with the latest WWDC announcement, I'd still suggest including them there [11:41:44] and some run on both ipad and iphone [11:41:46] Split screen is gonna mess up a bunch of stuff. [11:41:48] so some apps need them [11:42:03] Right. [11:42:12] Even apps just running on an ipad will need them [11:42:16] yes [11:43:01] im all for encouraging them to always be included [11:43:09] The more I think about it, the more I think apps should just have them always included. Yeah. [11:43:25] just believe there needs to for that use case be an option to exclude them [11:43:59] yeah, we've not enough mobile web app dev here to understand the need [11:44:10] even if i do prefer everything responsive [11:44:46] Our devs are doing pretty much everything responsive. It's not even optional at this point. Even the native stuff. [11:44:55] people that make hybrid apps are nuts trust me i deal with them a lot [11:45:07] we have had people fight for an option to exclude aria stuff [11:45:19] lol [11:45:19] even though voice over is still a thing in aps [11:45:26] Yep. [11:45:48] I can't even understand why they would make that argument, but I'm also not interested in super fringe cases. [11:45:48] i have never acomodated this accessibility is not an option there is not an actual use case for this [11:46:04] Right. [11:46:13] they some how believed it would improve the performance of their app [11:50:38] meh im less convinced this is important [11:50:58] im kinda ok with telling people to get over it that they are "future proofing" their app lol [11:51:04] not true but it sounds good [11:51:45] lol [11:52:13] "You seem like the kinda person who wants to be future friendly, right?" [11:53:37] and if we dont care about excluding im not sure a mixin is needed [11:53:52] since we will want the specific breakpoints to be variables anyway [11:54:35] Right. [11:54:36] Well. [11:54:43] Wait till you see my mixins [11:54:52] (Still think we should avoid them) [11:54:55] lol [11:55:12] im just not sure we need them with the variable approach we seem to be taking? [11:55:49] Right. [11:55:53] im not for or against them i just want to know the advantage [11:55:56] But check this beast out: http://sassmeister.com/gist/c00db22ed4882680fc91 [11:56:12] Even throws useful errors [11:56:37] I think I might have one for every philosophy [11:56:39] nice [11:56:41] One has set variables [11:56:55] One just lets you write a number with a modifier [11:57:24] michaelarestad: well you can incorporate as much logic as you want when you define your variable too [11:57:38] it moves the location of the logic though [11:58:06] michaelarestad: that aside do we need something like that [11:58:12] right [11:58:15] i though we wanted to provide just a very basic set of break points [11:58:31] Could even be as simple as this: http://sassmeister.com/gist/266ffe19ea4db90606eb [11:58:39] since the majority of responsive stuff is application specific [11:58:50] Yep. [11:59:00] I think we're on the same page there. [11:59:35] also with the mixin like hat [11:59:47] dont you essentially lost the ability to set your break points with variables? [12:00:00] Nah [12:00:30] @include breakpoint( 'max-width: ' + $large ){} [12:00:56] http://sassmeister.com/gist/266ffe19ea4db90606eb [12:00:57] Here's another one that's more variable-based: https://gist.github.com/MichaelArestad/a100ccdb74573ab2ef7a [12:00:58] yeah [12:01:22] so i would be fine either way personally [12:01:26] Yeah. [12:01:28] but it seems like more then we need / want [12:01:47] like i envisioned only having like 4 breakpoints [12:01:50] Yep. [12:02:04] 3 works pretty well [12:02:13] and you could make the whole min-width: 480px [12:02:14] (though technically it ends up being 6) [12:02:15] the variable [12:02:19] Right. [12:02:22] so you could flip them around how ever you wanted [12:02:26] Another thing to consider [12:02:34] and the reason these mixins are so crazy looking [12:02:54] min-width: 480px and max-width: 480px both apply to something 480px wide. [12:03:05] So we get around it by making one of them 481 [12:03:15] The min-width [12:03:41] right [12:03:50] Kinda fringy, but can have pretty crazy results when it happens. [12:04:01] yeah iv seen it [12:04:35] no just for the record [12:04:48] we could do equally crazy things solely in the variable system [12:05:00] its capable of generating mixins [12:05:38] Sweet. [12:06:25] like i said before its just putting the logic in a different place [12:06:39] you probably can have a bit more robust logic in js [12:06:49] but i doubt we at least need it [12:36:05] woah, words [12:36:14] this is what happens when I get sucked into work